富而思静,静而思远

承孝相专访/ Seung H-Sang talk with ueD
富而思静，静而思远/ In Prosperity, Serene. In Serenity, Forseek.
建筑师的成长背景
UED：每个人的成长经历不同，造就了不同的人生选择方向，请问在您的成长过程中，是什么使您决定从事建筑设计的工作？
承孝相：我本来想学神学，但我们家是在韩国战争时期从北朝鲜避难来的，考虑到这样的处境，姐姐觉得我应该要撑起这个家，劝说我做建筑。

虽然，当时并不知道建筑是什么就选择了建筑行业，但后来发现建筑其实就是组织人们生活的事情，所以跟研究神和人的问题的神学没什么不同。

UED：请问在您建筑设计风格的形成过程中，影响最深的是什么？
承孝相：我小时候生长在难民村内的一个有着很长中间空间的院子里，是一个周边有8户聚集在一起的空间结构，我始终忘不掉在这个院落空间里相互分享的生活情景。

还有，我的导师金寿根先生一直在教我们建筑的本质是在于看不见的空间里，这种教导成为了我建筑的根基。

通过建筑改变时代的阿道夫∙路斯等知识分子型建筑师的态度对我来说也起到了很重要的指引作用。

UED：作为一个虔诚的基督徒，信仰对您的设计理念的形成有着怎样的影响？
承孝相：我一直记得圣经中“一个人的人生比宇宙更珍贵”这句话，因此我对即将要生活在建筑中的人们怀有着尊敬和爱心。

所以，当我在画一条线的时候会很犹豫，会时常感到忐忑和踌躇，生怕在我设计出来的建筑中居住的人会因建筑而使生活变坏。

UED：您认为建筑师在社会中应该扮演的角色是什么？又有着怎样的责任？
承孝相：前面我提到了《梓人传》，建筑师是设计别人的房子，并不是炫耀自身艺术成就的艺术家，应对时代的要求做出反应，应该是想改变社会的知识分子。

这样的知识分子有义务时常将自己流放到世界的边缘，然后观察边界，并进行批判，提出对策。

边界之外是寒冷的、凄凉的、孤独的，但是要忍受这些痛苦，才能成为正确的建筑师，这样边界里的世界才能够进步和发展。

很久以前，我针对“建筑师应有的态度”这一问题写过这样的一篇文章，“做建筑设计的建筑师对人的生命、尊严要有真诚和严正的态度，因此要虚心、要哀恸、要饥渴慕义。

建筑是关乎别人生活的事情，所以要温柔，要有怜悯，要清心，要使人和睦。

为了做正确的建筑，要走的并不是权力和资本铺就的宽敞的门，而是要进入痛苦和狭窄的门。

要自己清心，不要把圣物给狗，不要把珍珠丢给猪。

要精通所有事物，为了博学要灵巧像蛇，驯良像鸽子，绝不与不义妥协，要随时做好因这种行为在家或者在自己家乡受到非难的心理准备。

为了懂得人生，也得一同吃喝，但绝不能被关在其周围，要随时将自己流放在外，独自站在旷野中直视世界，守护和省察人生。

唯独追随真理、在真理中自由的人，才能成为正确的建筑师。

”这对我来说是岂敢生念的话语，所以我其实也生怕因为自己成不了正确的建筑师而感到忐忑。

设计的哲学
UED：您的很多建筑作品中都十分注重建筑与自然、城市、人之间的关系，您是如何处理这些因素在设计中的关系的？
承孝相：建筑肯定要先挖土再建立，因此建筑本身就是破坏自然，也因如此，建筑有义务恢复已破坏的自然。

由此而产生了风景建筑的概念，我所提出的文化风景(Culturescape)就是这个意思。

城市是建筑物的集合体，其若想变成一个健康的社会，每栋建筑就应具有公共性。

互不相识的人们构成的社会若想成为一个可持续的共同体，那么承载人们生活的建筑就需要从对方的立场上来理解，这是一种伦理。

换而言之，与自然的和解、公共性、伦理，这三个因素是我建筑中重要的课题。

UED：您提出的“地文”的设计理念既适用于建筑，也适用于城市与乡村的规划发展，是一种积极有内涵的态度，您认为该如何延续地方的文化、文脉？
承孝相：这世上的每块地都是完全不同的，至少位置、周边环境、大自然印刻的纹理不同，在其中生活过的人们曾经刻下的纹理也不同。

因此，所有的地都有着不同的条件。

建筑要接受其场所条件，因此每个建筑都要不同，这样才能保留过去的历史。

同时，也做好接受新历史的准备，才能使地区文化得以保留、传承下去。

UED：中国建筑史学家、建筑师梁思成先生曾经说过“一个建筑师必须有哲学家的头脑、社会学家的眼光、工程师的精确和实践、心理学家的敏感、文学家的洞察力和艺术家的表现力”，在您看来哲学对于建筑有怎样的意义，有什么您欣赏或者认同的建筑哲学理念吗？
承孝相：建筑本身就是哲学，是伦理。

更好的建筑，将会组织出更加美好人生。

好的建筑必须起到对我们生活的关照和省察的作用，这种哲学性态度对好的建筑来说也是必须的。

我倒没有特别主张某一类哲学，但一定要举一个出来的话，多少对现实主义比较感兴趣。

因为，建筑不是梦想，而是承载我们现实生活的实体。

UED：作为一位较了解中国文化的韩国建筑师，中国传统建筑理念中是否有您比较欣赏的思想？
承孝相：在很久之前，我就开始长期阅读中国古典文学，包括老子、庄子、孔子和孟子，我从这些中国历史贤者的句子里获得了非常多的智慧，我建筑中重要的概念词“空”以及建筑的伦理等都可以说是从中获得的成就。

前些日子，在学习“古文真宝”时，从中读到了柳宗元的《梓人传》，文中有作为建筑师应有的态度，使我深受感动。

对自身专业性的自豪，对公共的服务之心，对不正当要求的对抗之姿，以及1200年前的建筑师也在高扬公共性的价值等，使我作为现代建筑师进行了自我反省。

UED：您曾经牵头的坡州出版城案例，从最初策划、规划到产业导入，整体的操盘和运营式等是如何展开的？
承孝相：在我决定做该项目的总规划协调者之前，已经有一个破坏我们固有村落的西方式的规划方案。

我以全部推翻并重新做规划为条件，同意任职该项目的总规划师。

然后，提出适合汉江边湿地地形的新的规划，确立概念，树立设计导则，并邀请40位建筑师参与设计，由我来协调他们的工作。

桥、照明等街道和基础设施是我来做的，这样能够保证整座城市的统一性。

但是，道路在我介入之前已经开工。

至今，当时以车辆为主的道路组织形式，对于这里形成健康的社会方面带来了一些问题。

这里原本就是出版人聚集的地方，所以产业以出版和文化为主，虽然建筑群的规模较小，但为了克服同一产业所带来的封闭性问题，便以强调社会性的“城市”作为其名称。

UED：对居委会改造的计划是如何发起、操作，并取得了怎样的效果？
承孝相：居委会项目是将首尔范围内分散开的427个一线行政机关的独立小设施变成公共设施，以满足地区需要的文化功能，比如图书室、影院、音乐厅、儿童游乐场等。

我想将这些设施连起来就会形成全首尔范围的文化网络系统，结果非常成功。

城市社会性思考
UED：可否请您举几个关于城市转型、城市更新或乡村振兴等城乡发展类中较为成功的案例？
承孝相：出版人团结在一起共同打造出版城，并将其扩大为出版影像城的建设过程中虽有一些问题出现，但从居民自己主动要建设城市这一点上来看，是非常具划时代的案例。

因为，一般情况下，城市是以供给者为主来建设的。

目前，在韩国社会有一些兴趣相投的人或者亲近的人自主结成团体，建设组合住宅，这也是一个重要的变化。

由此，韩国政府决定在首都圈周边几个地方建设新的城市，这次的建设方法与之前会有所不同。

目前，我作为国家建筑政策委员长也在参与此类事情中。

UED：韩国近些年来在城乡发展进程中经历过哪些阶段，又出现了一些什么样的突出问题，又是如何应对的,对其他城市有何借鉴意义？
承孝相：在韩国战争时期，拥有悠久历史的传统村落，大部分都遭到了破坏。

之后，随着西方文明的涌入，带来了急速的变化。

同时，随着经济开发的热潮，在物质文明过度支配下，人们产生了混乱的价值观，至今在城市的深处仍留有创伤，这是事实。

为了解决这些问题，克服这一现状，各个领域里曾出现过几次具有影响力的动作。

其中，在1990年建筑界发生了一件代表性的事件是，包括我在内的三十多、四十多岁的建筑师们聚在一起组成的《4.3集团》，提出了“新时代，新建筑”的主题，引领新的风气。

意在重新找回我们祖先曾拥有的文化和道德的深层含义，提出适合当时代的新价值，这在当时对我们的社会产生了很大的影响力。

UED：您作为韩国建筑师，从国际视野的角度，是如何看待城乡发展的趋势，对当今世界建筑师们为此所做的努力有何看法？
承孝相：现今，在我们生活的时代，借助互联网和智能手机的力量，逐渐从以供给者为中心转变为以需求者为中心的世界，也可以说是史蒂夫▪乔布斯的功劳。

权力来自于对信息的垄断，但现今在这任何人都可以轻而易举地得到信息的世界里，不能只接受一个时代精神。

因此，城市和乡村里居民的想法、参与也很重要。

居民并不只有一种，所以在一座城市内必须形成多种小的共同体，也许这就是2千年前亚里士多德说的聚居（Synoikismos）状态。

互不相同的人聚集在一起形成的共同体，在中国的文化也存在，叫“和而不同”。

意思是，像以前的现代主义或者后现代主义等类似的整体概括建筑师思想的词汇已经不复存在了。

目前，全世界的建筑师们都有其各自努力的方向，很难形成统一的建筑思潮。

UED：在全球化背景下，您认为应如何挖掘城市内涵，是否完全体现传统文化的建筑风格就是有特色的呢？
承孝相：在信息飞速共享的现今时代，城市和建筑要拥有普遍性的价值，即任何人都能感受到的。

但如果在不立足于城市和建筑的地域特殊性之上时，我们也可以在过去的历史中找到，那些最终飘摇消散的例子。

所以，重要的是特殊的普遍性(Specific Universality)，也就是说，若只表现传统文化，却不能跟世人共享，也有可能是没有价值的。

UED：据了解您非常的喜爱北京，看过您之前的采访，了解到您对目前中国的开发模式有一些担忧，您对中国目前的开发状况有什么建议？承孝相：北京作为有着悠久历史的首都，在进行大幅度经济开发，形成现代化的城市基础设施之前，很有自信地显示了城市应有的气质，我曾为此感叹过。

这些气质和权威与悠久的历史文化一起，成为了构成北京城市的身份认同因素，这种因素的健康持续性是很重要的。

当然，在过去的数十年间，由于急速的城市再开发，北京有了天翻地覆的变化，目前已经是世界少数的现代城市之一。

但是，在开发的背后是否存在因过度的标志性建筑或者商业主义建筑的建设，而疏忽了城市应有的日常性的现象，在这一方面需要回顾。

伊塔洛·卡尔维诺的《隐形的城市》这本书中写道，“城市的真实在于小巷中遇见的邻居家的围挡或者栏杆，小的公共卫生间和派出所等。

”地理学家大卫·哈维也强调说，“现代城市中比起形象和美学，更重要的是城市的故事和城市中的伦理。

”
UED：您从2001年开始在中国进行了很多项目实践，在将近二十年的时间里，您在中国做项目有什么感观上的转变？
承孝相：我一直很感谢中国给了我机会，现在的中国有很多世界级的建筑师，我也看到了不少非常美丽的建筑出自于中国建筑师。

我开始在中国做项目时，也在提醒人们应该警惕汹涌而来的西方建筑的表皮现象，主张进行适合中国土地的建筑观点。

现在，应该是到了中国派主导世界建筑的时候了。

UED：您对今年的“首尔双年展”以及“CBC建筑中心”的空间价值创造展有何看法？
承孝相：国家是政治的、排他的，但城市却是社会的、包容的共同体，所以在历史上城市的存在比起国家更具持续性。

为了解决世界的很多问题，比起排他的国家之间的联合，包容的城市之间的联合更加有效率，从这种角度出发创建了首尔城市建筑双年展。

CBC今年参与进来，我作为双年展的运营委员长感到非常高兴。

今年的双年展主题为“集合都市”，意在展示现代城市复杂的特性，与CBC的展览内容十分契合。

希望CBC以后也继续参与进来，与其他城市相互分享对城市和建筑的想法，并一同发展下去。

from fetus to maturity
UED:Each person has a different growing experience, which results in different life choices and directions. may I ask, what was it in your experience that led to your decision of dedicating your life to architectural design?
Seung H-Sang:Initially I wanted to study theology. But then during the time of war, my family fled from North Korea and sought asylum here. Considering these circumstances, my sister felt that I should support the family and persuaded me into pursuing architecture. Though choosing architecture industry while having no clue about what architecture actually is, I soon found out that it is about organizing people’s life. So in a way, it is not that different from theology, which studies the relationship between God and men.
UED:may I ask, what is it that caused the greatest influence in the formation of your architectural design style?
Seung H-Sang:I grew up in the refugee village, in a courtyard with a long patio in the centre. It was a spatial structure enclosed by eight households. I could never forget that sharing life scene that went on in that courtyard space. In addition, my mentor Mr. Kim Swoo-geun always taught us that the essence of architecture lies in the invisible spaces. This kind of education became the foundation of my architecture. Apart from that, the attitude of intellectual-type architects such as Adolf Loos, who changed an era with architecture, also provided me with guidance of utmost importance.
UED:As a devout Christian, where does your faith come into the formation of your design philosophy?
Seung H-Sang: I always remember one phrase in the Bible “One’s life is more invaluable than the cosmos”, hence I have respect and love for the people who are about to live in architecture. Therefore, I often hesitate whenever I draw each line, feeling perturbed and uneasy, terrified at the thought that the life of the people living in it might be ruined because of my design.
UED:In your opinion, what kind of role should architects be playing in society? And what responsibilities come with it?
Seung H-Sang:I mentioned a Chinese old literature “The Biography of a Carpenter” earlier, stating that while designing others’ houses, architects are not artists, flaunting their own artistic brilliance. Architects should be intellectuals, reacting to the needs of times, looking to change society. Such intellectuals have the duty of constantly exiling themselves to the edge of the world, observing the edge, criticising and proposing countermeasures. It is cold, bleak and lonely beyond the border. But only through suffering can one become the right type of architect, so that the world on the inside could make progress and development.
Long ago, I wrote an article addressing the question of “The proper attitude of architects”. “Architects practicing architecture should have a sincere and solemn attitude towards human life and dignity. Therefore, architects must be modest, mournful, and desperate for righteousness. Architecture has everything to do with other people’s lives, so it must be conducted by one who is meek, merciful, pure in heart and a peacemaker. For doing the right type of architecture, it is not the Wide Gate made out of power and capital but the Narrow Gate of suffering through which one shall walk. One must be pure in heart. Do not give dogs what is sacred and throw your pearls to pigs. One must master all things. To pursuit erudition, one must be shrewd as snakes and innocent as doves. One must never compromise against unrighteousness, and always be mentally prepared for blame or criticism resulted from such behaviour at home or one’s hometown. For understanding life, one must dine and wine with the rest. However, one must never be constrained and linger around. One must exercise self-exile at any time. One must stand alone in the wilderness and face up to the world, watch over, examine and be vigilant about life.” These are words which I dare not tread on, for I too tremble at the very thought of not becoming the right type of architect.
Design Philosophy
UED:many of your works emphasize on the relationship between architecture, nature, city and people. How do you deal with such relationship in your design?
Seung H-Sang: The very essence of architecture means earth cutting and establishing, therefore architecture itself is a breach in nature. For the very reason, it is within the architecture’s duty to recover the broken nature. Hence comes the concept of landscape architecture, which is what I mean by Culturescape. A city is an aggregation of architecture. In order to form a healthy society, each building should possess certain publicity. For the very purpose of a society that consists of unacquainted strangers converting to a sustainable community, architecture, which contains people’s life, should provide an understanding from one and another’s position. This is a sort of ethic. In other words, reconciliation with nature, publicity and ethic are the three most important factors in my architecture topics.
UED:The design philosophy “Landscript” which you initiated, is a positive and connotative attitude suitable not only for architecture, but also for urban-rural planning and development. How do you think the local culture and context should be preserved and continued?
Seung H-Sang: Each and every piece of land in the world is completely different. For the very least, the location, surrounding environment and the texture left by nature always differ, not to mention the texture left by the people that used to live there. So every piece of land comes in a different condition. Architecture has to embrace its site condition, so every piece of architecture must be different so that the history is kept. In the meantime, one must keep an open mind for new history, in order for the local culture to be preserved and passed on.
UED:Chinese architectural historian and architect mr. Liang Sicheng once said, “An architect must have the mind of a philosopher, sight of a sociologist, accuracy and practice of an engineer, sensitivity of a psychologist, insight of a litterateur and expression of an artist”. What do you think is the significance of philosophy for architecture? Are there any architectural philosophies that you appreciate or identify with?
Seung H-Sang:Architecture itself is philosophy, and ethic. Better architecture always results in better lives. Good architecture shall always examine and look after our lives, which is a necessary philosophical attitude. I personally don’t really advocate one particular type of philosophy. If I must, I guess my interest more or less lies in realism, for architecture is no dream or illusion, but a solid entity which bears the weight of our real life.
UED:As a Korean architect who knows Chinese culture, are there any thoughts in Chinese traditional architectural ideology that you appreciate in particular?
Seung H-Sang: I started reading Chinese classic literature on a long-term basis from a long time ago, including Lao Zi, Zhuang Zi, Confucious and Mencious. There is a lot of wisdom I gained from the words of these Chinese historic oracles. A very important concept “Vacancy” in my architectural philosophy comes from them, as well as the idea of ethics in architecture.
The other day, when I was studying “Gu Wen Zhen Bao” (True Treasure of Ancient Chinese Prose), I came across “The Biography of a Carpenter” by Liu Zongyuan. I was deeply moved by the proper attitude mentioned in the article that architects should have. The hero’s pride in his own expertise, his heart in public service, his stance of confrontation facing unjustified requests, and the fact that architects from 1200 years ago praised the value of publicity. These all urged me to go through a self-reflection as a modern day architect.
UED:We are intrigued by the project Paju Bookcity on which you took the lead. Would you walk us through the process from initial events planning, master plan to the introduction of industries? How does the overall operation pattern develop and work? Seung H-Sang:Prior to my decision of serving as the coordinator of the project’s overall planning, there was already a western-style planning scheme which would have destroyed our original village texture. On the condition of a complete overturn and a new planning from scratch, I agreed to serve as the chief planner of this project. Afterwards, I proposed a new planning fitting to the riverside topography of Han River, established a major concept and various principles for design, invited 40 architects to participate in the design, and I myself coordinated between their works. I did the streets and infrastructures such as bridge and illumination myself, so that the overall uniformity of the city remained intact. However, the road system construction started before my involvement. The pro-vehicle type of road organizing form has brought some problems till now in the aspect of the formation of a healthier society.
The local industries are mainly dominated by publishing and culture, given the fact that it has always been the gathering place of publishers. Despite the relatively small scale of building complex, we named it “Bookcity” emphasizing its sociality, in order to counteract the isolation issue resuling from mono-industry.
UED:How did you initiate and operate the reform plan on the residential committee? What kind of effect did it accomplish? Seung H-Sang: The residential committee project is to convert 427 independent small facilities, which were scattered all over Seoul and under the management of first-tier administrative organizations, into public facilities. The purpose is to fulfil the required cultural functions of respective regions, such as libraries, cinemas, music halls and children’s playgrounds. It was my wish to connect all these and form a cultural network system that covers the whole of Seoul, which turned out to be a huge success.
Reflection on Urban Sociality
UED:Which particular stages in urban-rural development has South Korea gone through in the recent years? Which prominent problems emerged along the process and what were the solutions? furthermore, how can other cities use these for reference? Seung H-Sang:During war time, the vast majority of our traditional villages with rich history were damaged. After that, rapid changes soon came in with the tide of western civilization. At the meantime, with the boom in economic development, people experienced certain confusion and chaos in their values under the excessive domination of material civilization, leaving as a matter of fact, wounds in the very depths of cities up until this day.
In order to solve these above-mentioned problems and overcome the status quo, there have been several influential movements in various
fields. Among which is one of the representative events in architecture industry. Architects back then in their thirties and forties including myself gathered together and formed the “4.3 Group” and raised the theme of “New Era, New Architecture” in order to lead a new trend in the field. The key point was to reclaim the deep significance in culture and morals that our ancestors once owned, and to put forward new values fitting to the current era. It made a great impact on our society back then.
UED:As a South Korean architect, what is your view on the urban-rural development trend from the international perspective? What do you think about the efforts that architects all over the world nowadays are making for this?
Seung H-Sang:In our time, with the forces such as the internet and smart phones, the world has been gradually transforming from supplier-centred to a demander-centred structure, for which in some way we must give the credit to Steve Jobs. Power lies in the monopoly of information. However, in this time and age where anyone could have easy access to information, accepting only one spirit of the time is clearly outdated and no longer suitable. Therefore, opinions and actual participations from urban and rural residents are of much importance as well. There’s more than one type of resident, so various small communities must come into existence in a city. Maybe that’s what Aristotle meant 2000 years ago by the state of Synoikismos. Communities formed by different people gathering together are a phenomenon which also existed in the Chinese culture, called “Harmony in Diversity”. All these indicate one thing that, the words we used in the past as overall generalization of architects’ ideology, such as modernism or post-modernism, have passed out of existence. Nowadays, architects all over the world have their own and respective direction of efforts. A single unified architectural trend can hardly be formed.
UED:Under the background of globalization, how do you think we should explore the city connotation? Is it safe to say that architectural styles which reflect traditional culture entirely are necessarily distinctive?
Seung H-Sang:In this age of rapid information sharing, cities and architecture should have their universal value, meaning the necessity of being felt by anyone. However, if not established on the local uniqueness, we could always find examples as such of architecture or cities which eventually perished in time. So, the key point is the Specific Universality. In other words, if reflecting only the traditional culture without the ability of sharing, the result could be of little value as well.
UED:It is known that you adore Beijing very much. Having seen your previous interviews, we understand that you have some concerns about China’s current development mode. What would you suggest given the status quo?
Seung H-Sang:As a capital city with a very long history, I once exclaimed over the fact that Beijing demonstrated confidently the temperament that the city ought to possess, before the drastic economic development, as well as the establishing and formation of modernized urban infrastructures. These temperaments and authority, along with the rich history and culture, constituted the very identity of the city of Beijing. The consistency and continuity of these factors are vital. In the past few decades, Beijing has undergone tremendous changes due to the rapid process of urban re-development, and has grown to be one of the most stunning megacities in the world.. However, behind all these developments, the phenomenon of the possible overlook of the city’s day to day life due to the excessive construction of iconic buildings or business architecture is worth pondering on and in need of a retrospect. In his book “Le città invisibili” Italo Calvino wrote, “The truth in cities lies in the neighbour’s fence or handrail that one encounters in alleys, it also lies in small public toilets and local police stations.” The geographer David Harvey also said, “Compared with the image or beauty of a modern city, the stories and ethics in the city are of greater importance.”
UED:You have been doing a lot of architectural practices in China ever since 2001. During the period of almost two decades, have you had any sensorial change while doing projects in China?
Seung H-Sang:I have always been very grateful for the opportunities that China has presented me. There are many world-class architects in China nowadays, and I’ve seen a lot of fabulous buildings coming from Chinese architects. When I started doing projects in China, I always warned people that they should stay vigilant about the surge of the building skin phenomenon brought by western architecture. And I’ve been constantly advocating the idea that we should practice architecture that is suitable for the specific context of China. As of today, I believe now comes the time for Chinese architecture to dominate the world.
UED:What is your opinion on this year’s Seoul Biennale of Architecture and Urbanism, as well as CBC’s exhibition “Creation of Spatial Value”?
Seung H-Sang:A nation is political and exclusive, whereas a city is a social and inclusive community. That’s why in history, cities are stronger in continuity than nations. In solving many problems in the world, unions between inclusive cities are much more efficient than those between exclusive nations. And from this very perspective, the Seoul Biennale of Architecture and Urbanism is created. As the chairman of the Biennale’s Operation Committee, I for one am very pleased about CBC’s participation this year. The theme this year is “Collective City”, stating the goal of showcasing the complex feature of modern cities, which is very much in line with CBC’s exhibition. It is my hope that CBC would continue participating, share with other cities each other’s thoughts on cities and architecture, and grow together with the rest of us.。